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Monday, 25 March 2013

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Groan

"Young women were significantly more likely to report inflicting Verbal and emotional abuse and violence on their partner, than the young men"
http://www.ndvf.org.uk/files/document/1093/original.pdf
This from the largest( number of respondents) report in the UK talking to young women and men. Though this and other reports were commissioned as part of Violence Against Women policies they found on fact young women were both are more likely to hit and both sexes condoned in females behaviour they condemned in males. This and other studies confirmed in their data that violence against girls and women is taboo but not the reverse. Understandably these studies are ignored in favour of small samples of girls as this finding fundamentally contradicts the feminist assertion that violence against women is endemic. Tom has highlighted again the misandry in our society, which at it's base alows violence to male partners seem OK even to men themselves.

dudzz

Typical western women hypocrisy and weak western male for putting up with it situation.

barryb

Tom, you're not a film maker. Giving yourself an unmerited title just makes you look silly and as bad as feminists.

Tim Treesfield


To be honest, I think some of this is a bit over the top. Yes, the way men are sometimes portrayed in advertising and soap-operas has been a problem. But the negative depictions in advertising have largely disappeared presumably because those clever capitalists hit upon the realisation that it doesn't boost sales to slap half your consumers in the face all the time.

Men's rights campaigners ought to be careful not to mimic the behaviour of the feminists they decry, taking offence about silly and minor things, as if they're equivalent to serious emotional and physical harm.

With all the significant challenges men face
across a broad range of policy areas, there are much bigger fish to fry. This looks a bit of a waste of time if you ask me.

Tom Martin

Yes, I am a film-maker thanks for that Barry.
Subscribe to my sexismbusters youtube channel for an upcoming documentary on sex segregation.

Also, here's a video discussion on the men's rights movement between me and Ally Fogg of the Guardian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stn_wkTEESE

Also, Tim Treesfield, there are big and small men's issues. The police in New York took a zero tolerance approach to low level crime and they think it's help them eradicate more serious crime also, so please don't dismiss the apparently trivial, especially when it's against men alone, and on a men's issues website.

Scarecrow

I'm not surprised by the relatively casual attitude towards violence against men.

10 years ago I overheard a group of young (18-24 yo) men discussing their relationships past and present, and someone mentioned that their ex had hit them. Almost at once some of the others spoke of experiencing the same, from current partners as well as exes. What struck me was the casual, matter-of-fact way this was discussed, as if it was something they considered inevitable and part and parcel of being in a relationship.

If men are so accepting of the violence their partners mete out I only have to wonder where they are getting their attitudes from. I can only guess part of this is a side effect of the exhortation to (never hit a woman) they are subject to from their mothers, partners, fathers, and society at large.

Groan

Tim. I tend to agree that there are bigger "fish to fry" particularly in education , work and family policy. However I recall that the "throw rocks at them" campaign did have an influence on public perceptions and policy in the US. While adverts for customers may well be moderated advertising by public bodies isn't so responsive and shouldn't perpetuate outdated stereotypes. Yet it does. So the reports I talk about above end wondering why young men don't seek information about Domestic Abuse. Completely missing one reason that information about male abuse of women clearly misses out the experience of the young men(numerically more often abused than young women). A few feminists have noted this problem from their point of view as either men will eventually lose patience and hit back and tolerance of abusive behaviour on men may also be linked to toleration of abuse .

barryb

Tom what was the last accreditation you got at a recognised film festival (a real one not a made up indy one) what shorts or docs have you submitted to any festivals? When was the last commissioned product you produced sold?

Any idiot can pick up a camcorder and call themselves one, does not make it so.This dumbed down unmerited title bullshit is exactly what the other side uses. I refuse to recognise such nonsense as credible.

Groan

Scarecrow. Your experience is supported by the research. Even the ultra feminist University of Bristol unit found similar levels of abusive behaviour and violence experienced by males and females.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/findings/partner_exploitation_and_violence_report_wdf70129.pdf
What was very different was the way the victims and their peers viewed it. Sadly it appears young men accept this sort of behaviour from their girlfriends as just something that happens. Not reporting it of believing it to be a crime. This alongside other similar repots in Southwalk, Scotland and Northern Ireland all show varying degrees of victimisation of males but a similar acceptance by young people of abuse of males in ways that they condemn if happening to females. An evident double standard.

NWOslave

"Jokes about women's violence towards men get easy laughs even though violence by women is on the increase."

I disagree with the assumption that violence by women is on the increase. Violence by women, especially against men has always been prevalent. So many laws since the Victorian era have stacked up over the centuries women have carte blanche to hit a man. It's just that the number of "arrests" have increased due to the use of cameras by the police. Up until the use of cameras in police cars, giving a woman a ticket for a driving violation meant a cop was putting his career on the line. The "accusation" by any women of sexual harassment meant a cops career was over.
----------
"In one survey, 60% of female university students thought it acceptable for wives to hit their husbands."

Again, I don't see this is any "increase or change" in attitude. Women as a whole have always thought this. Since it's basically the law that women can hit men, or are excused from their actions there really is no harm in brazenly stating an action you're able to get away with.

Tom Martin

NWOslave, I agree, reporting of women's violence has increased. My article did have the phrase "reported violence" which must have got shortened to just "violence" in an edit somewhere along the line.

BarryB,

I've got a degree in film-making, for which I wrote and directed 11 of the 12 films I participated in, and I have one short documentary on youtube which has 35,000 views and a 90% approval rating: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y9_oklmHvU

Since then I've been appearing in other peoples films, but am now turning my attention to a fuller length documentary on the subject of sex segregation - you can judge the eventual film's veracity by subscribing to my youtube channel, sexismbusters. The film will be broadcast quality.

Any idiot can pick up a camera, true, and I recommend you give it a go if you haven't already, to find out just how easy it is.

Groan

http://j4mb.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/urgent-imminent-public-meeting-in-wales-concerning-domestic-abuse-merthyr-tydfil-14-february/

Good luck Tom. In Wales the war against boys progresses with yet another policy shift to simply ignore abuse of men young and old.

barryb

Tom, I can light a fart and get more views than that on youtube lets be honest. I can make a million shorts with a camera and they sit there, still don't make you a film maker. Especially as there is no such thing as a film maker in reality :-)

Next week I will go and light a candle in a church and call myself the pope.

barryb

P.S Tom if that video is an example of your "film making" degree's merits , with that editing, lighting, audio and camera style..I would go get your money back dude.

Can't you at least use a blood steady-cam or was you looking for the "hectic and on edge feel" perhaps you can't find one to fit a camcorder? ? LOL...

Film maker...fuck me....

Anyway gotta go, Spielberg just walked in the door !

Tom Martin

Yeah, Barry, I had a small court case on at the time, so things were hectic and on edge - but I think the camerawork was very good, shot by a film student. There was no lighting, because it was shot outside. He did a good job editing it too.

90% approval rating says we did a good job, but thanks for your input. Barry B everybody.

barryb

The case that never got heard you mean? I'll guess you will be a high court judge next, your honour in the title ? BTW, the lighting on the interior shots was shit, the camera work was rubbish , the whole thing could have been done by any teenager with a f...king camcorder. Film maker my arse. You insult real ones and make the MRM look stupid by pretending to speak for it and making shit out of nothing too try and sound clever.

Those who make up such titles without the merit, are supposed to be on the other side of the fence. Men should have standards, not Walter Mitty syndrome.

Even Ed Wood would ask to be credited as Alan Smithee on that video.

Tom Martin

" You... make the MRM look stupid... too try and sound clever"? It's "... to try" Brian.

"The case that never got heard"?

You heard about it.

22,000 people have watched the UCL debate my court case sparked, Is feminism sexist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3vTGPsqbZ0

- AND Mike Buchanan got a chance to meet me!

My article in the Guardian linked to a Paul Elam video on male victims of DV increasing its views by 60,000 in a day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOu_BszChIE

The case got thrown out, but I'm taking it to the court of public opinion, so cheer up!

Why are you so angry/disparaging of my actions?

zulu127

"Why are you so angry/disparaging of my actions?"

That's what I was wondering...this barryb person seems to have it out for you for some reason Tom...very strange.

Those stupid Rocks/Boys T-shirts are still out there?! I wrote the designer of those way back when to express my displeasure...never got a reply.

barryb

You are not a fucking film maker. I am sick of bullshitters especially in the MRM. Real men don't bullshit, they show respect to things by having standards and some fucking dignity about it .

You want to play walter mitty and make up titles for yourself without merit, you should grow a twat and vote for Labour, that's where it belongs. Don't dare stand there and argue the toss over being a film maker when a fucking retard can see you do little more than some dude who picked up a camcorder, you deserve to be taken apart for having the front to stand there and argue the toss about it.

You are an amateur and hobbyist at best.

Honestly if people cannot see why talking such shite and bullshitting like that is undermining to everything, then you don't deserve to fucking get anywhere.

Tom Martin

I did a degree in film-making, Barry.

Then I made a film, for £500, asking people to send money, and they sent a few thousand, thanks very much.

And then other people made films about my actions or had me on their shows, and people sent a couple grand more.

That does not make me a communist, Barry.

barryb

Talking of unmerited crap that is taking the mick and undermining everything it is supposed to be, women gets tax payer funded boob job on the NHS so she can be a professional useless.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9953786/Larger-breasts-on-NHS-for-would-be-model.html

barryb

Tom, what festivals was it entered into? Who bought it for distribution? Who did you go too for distribution? What contracts did you use? What equipment did you use?

£500, you spend that on a filter if you was serious about it, or at least rent it to make real product.

Please how the Art form the respect it deserves, don't call yourself a film maker because you picked up a camcorder. I don't give a damn if you did a degree, that does not make you a film maker, certainly not going by your video. What film school did you go to out of curiosity? I would like to know any Film school that makes you think that lighting, editing and audio in your video, was remotely acceptable?

I get pissed when I see people undermining standards of things I care about. That's why this country isn't worth a shit any more, too much of this going on.

So to be fair, where can I see this "Film" Tom? Lets see it?

Tom Martin

Somebody on Yahoo answers seems to have it in for me as well: "Why do MRAs look up to Tom Martin?":

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130325182611AAF5XcS

Has anyone else actually called Amazon yet to get these sexist items removed from sale?

Scarecrow

I wouldn't worry Tom Martin. Although informative and a useful resource this site does seem to attract people who seem more intent on attacking other MRAs than discussing useful methods to promote men's rights.

I believe Mike Buchanan came in for some flak here too; you seem to be in auspicious company at least...

Tom Martin

Mike Buchanan is our leader. He fell out with me when I started talking about manufacturing a bit more equality of outcome for men (and women, and the men and women that love them).

barryb

Leader? with all respects to mike (that is a silly name for a political party BTW) is he elected by all MRM now? No. Has there been any election to declare him spokesperson of all MRM, no. So sorry he is not anyone's leader, he is his own. If the MRM was to hold a web-wide ballot for a "leader" that would be a different thing.

A bunch of prospectors giving themselves titles and making claims they have not earned is all I see. Hey Tom where did those donations you got for the court case that never happened go?

Still waiting to see your film Tom or the answers to any of the questions. Also, has anyone contacted Amazon? I dunno Tom have you, it is your issue, what are you doing to organise?

What is anyone doing other than seeking funding or donations and giving themselves titles and claims? Those I see converging in the MRM groups right now, I wouldn't trust with a fiver. I only trust people who have standards and merit.

If I can throw questions at you that you avoid Tom...the other side will eat you up.

Groan

Equal Rights for men is so off the agenda I applaud any and all who make real efforts to put it "on the map". Tom has made real efforts to do so and I applaud him for that even though I may disagree with some of his ideas.
So keep on Tom. I for one wish you luck in your work.
Are there really so many men and women wanting to improve things for males that they can be put down for their efforts?

barryb

Groan, I agree, I am not knocking Tom for what he is doing
(allegedly) , I am pulling him up for HOW he is doing it, his bullshit and his real motives.

I still await my answers Tom. This ain't going away....

Dave

Can't believe I just posted a long comment here, basically agreeing with Tom, and it's disappeared!
To sum up - men should complain more about double-standards regardless of how minor they are. It's the little things that add up. Men need to regain their respect they have lost as a result of ignoring double-standards. Children pick up strong vibes from society and men's reluctance to complain and stand their ground with so-called minor issues sets a different level of acceptability for men and women and does nothing less than polarise men and women in terms of respect. Allowing Amazon to sell merchandise like this doesn't help our cause.

The interviewer in this interview with MB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op5tC56O7yc

raised the double-standard when it comes to Man-flu and the diet coke advert, both of which are part of a feministic campaign to belittle and devalue men. Hats off to the Radio Merseyside presenter who has the courage to recognise and speak out about such things!

And MB is really on a roll at the moment and going from strength to strength. I just wish he had more time to talk and respond to the feminists that they put him up against. For example, when Holly mentioned the words male privilege it would have been niceif Mike could have let rip with a nice long list of female privileges.

barryb

Still waiting Tom...

ian simclair

Have a look at this job link to see the level of supposed equality when it's a women's issue:
http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/job/4605300/director-of-policy-voice-and-membership/

Groan


http://j4mb.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/female-firefighters-coming-soon-to-a-fire-near-you-fingers-crossed/#respond

A common story posted on Justice For Men &boys. Support and loer standards for females. A common experience in public services as they fight to get more women in to meet "targets". But story shows that far from feminism being on offer, actually the helps and privileges amount to paternalism. This patronising of women puts an extra burden on the men, prevents good male candidates getting work and diminishes the efforts of those women who work hard and can meet standards without being treated like a child needing a 'bunk up'. The police, emergency health services and so on are blighted by this patronising rush to meet targets.

Someone

I think this is a mistake because it robs idiots who'd buy those goods of their chance to display their ignorance to the world.

People are not stupid, they can think for themselves, and if they don't, it's better if it's obvious to all.

Think of it as warning colors for poisonous frogs (in human form).

Mike Buchanan

Sorry, I've been very pressed for time over recent days, and I hadn't spotted that there had been follow-up comments to Tom Martin referrng to me as a 'leader'. The remark made me cringe for a number of reasons, one being that I disagree very strongly with Tom's extreme left-wing apporach to equality (e.g. he'd have 50% of coal miners women, men doing 50% of the childcare...) To Tom, living in such a world would be utopian. For me it would be dystopian. To the best of my knowledge Tom's the only person in the world who's on record as accepting that having more women on boards leads to declines in corporate financial performance, BUT THAT'S A PRICE WORTH PAYING. Hopefully Lefties will come up with a replacement for capitalism as a wealth generator before women take 50% of board directorships? They haven't found a replacement in 100+ years, but let's remain optimistic...

The only things I've EVER claimed to be the 'leader' of is J4MB, Campaign for Merit in Business, and Anti-Feminism League. The idea of any one person representing himself as the leader of the MRM, even at the individual country level, is patently ridiculous, in my view.

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