Commission for Equality and Human Rights

Government 'Equalities' Office

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Monday, 13 February 2012


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John Kimble

Some good reasons given explaining the gap in suicide rate. i seem to recall Erin Pizzey arguing that many men are driven commit suicide due to domestic abuse so that's an issue worth considering too.

Also seeing as we strive for absolute accuracy here, lets not downplay things just as we never exaggerate them. Men aren't just three time more likely to commit suicide than women - the figure is actually over 3.2 times more likely.


An exellent piece on an important issue. More women than men "attempt" suicide. Men are much more likely to succeeed. One reason for this is that women are much more likely to make a "cry for help". This raises the hidden nature of men's depression. Men are less likely to ask for help and so less likely to recieve it this is also coupled with the fact that they are much more likely to have dependents and feel they can't "give in". This is why you are so right to say that we should extend help to men even in small ways. And support organisations giving helping hands to those who find themselves in despair.

The patterns of depression and suicide in men are also striking in terms of social class, it is as you say the unemployed, under employed and low paid that this is particualrly a problem for. So the recession will be having a very negative effect on men.

Mike Buchanan

A terrific post. I have little doubt that high male unemployment rates are partly to blame for the differential suicide rate versus women. Unemployed women can more reliably expect to be 'looked after' by a partner, than an unemployed man. And what is driving high male unemployment? Partly structural changes e.g. the decline in the manufacturing sector, but also that while women are increasingly taking on traditional male roles, women are successfully keeping traditional female roles to themselves.

This research clearly shows men are actively discriminated against in key industries. The researchers expected the reverse. No doubt this is why it is such a rare piece.


I think there's far more to it than just employment issues. I know of two men (a friend of a friend) and a close-ish relative (not blood related) who have taken the suicide path. Both had good jobs and (very sadly) a young family. It's other stuff too, that make guys feel crappy about themselves. A COMPLETE lack of support from society in general regarding their emotional feelings usually does the trick. There are a huge amount of reasons for depression. It can range from men having the piss taken out of them because they're bald, which is OK by today's standards, through to the wealth of pornography available showing well-endowed men as the 'norm' thus belittling them and making them feel inadequate, through to the way that courts dismiss the rights of Fathers in favour of women, through to the way that men get manipulated and used by women who suck men in and then spit them out once they're done with them, usually concluded by screwing him for everything he has worked for! The problem is that men DO have emotions but they're too afraid to open up and there is nobody to go to who will take them seriously. We are all taught to fight each other to support and protect women and 'take it like a man'.


Yes Dave I thoroughly agree. I too have sad experience of suicide. I do believe that true equality will benefit men, releasing them from some of the very restrictive roles they fulfil. Some of this does start with men themselves being mindful of their brothers. Even the small things skimmington mentions help. I suppose the most extreme example is the fight to get the mental health of servicemen (and women) addressed. There seems to be an assumption that it would cause some social breakdown to be a bit kinder to men. Yet there seems evidence that men will still fulfil the roles expected but could just be better supported. Some years ago I read a book by a woman who spent 18 months as a man.

Of course it was journalistic and somewhat sensationalist. However Norah Vincent the author did highlight the need for men and women to liberate men from the straightjacket of "taking care of business". As she points out one aspect of this is women taking responsibility for themselves and recocnising that much of their role is a "sinecure".

"Men are suffering. They have different problems than women have, but they don't have it better," she said. "They need our sympathy. They need our love, and maybe they need each other more than anything else. They need to be together."

Ironically, Vincent said, it took experiencing life as a man for her to appreciate being a woman. "I really like being a woman. ... I like it more now because I think it's more of a privilege."


"I really like being a woman. ... I like it more now because I think it's more of a privilege."

I think most women have been programmed from an early age with the notion that men are there to take the rough while the women get the smooth end of the deal. It takes something drastic, like a woman living their life as a man for a while, for them to see the truth. But the question is: how do we penetrate deep into society to change the behaviour of most boys and girls, men and women that have been subjected to complete indoctrination and belive they are acting appropriately when in actual fact they are being totally sexist? It's a hard road to tackle. For instance, I happen to know (and this is a fact) that at school, there are teachers that make boys give up their chairs for girls when there aren't enough chairs available; teachers apparently equipping their request with the usual statement " a gentleman...". Now, how does one, as a parent, deal with that!?! I mean, what kind of message is that sending out to girls and boys! No wonder boys are up against it at school when teachers are prepared to label them at such an early age according to hierarchical, openly-recognised, socially classified privilege levels, all apparently based on what they have between their legs!


Just to add to the gloom

This research shows men are much more vulnerable to their partners than wome. simply because they don't share their problems with other family members or friends. The strength of men makes them vulnerable especially if that partner abuses them.

Actually from my children I do get some hope as they do interpret sexism to mean some basic fairness. Though it pains me to say it I think there is a place for genuine gender studies at a university level. I think men sign up for fairness, to be honest I think they'll always volunteer to do the nasty dangerous stuff but this needs to be less invisible. And where there are differences, like in seeking help, these need to be taken into account. What is very clear is there is no justification now for sex based discrimination as advocated by gender feminists.


I think its not so gloomy as that Groan. I remember reading that when feminism first emerged it was thought that women could never stick together and form a cohesive force. It was predicted that they would all be arguing and would never really advance. Well, we know that is not true.

The same applies to men though of course! Men do not necessarily have to volunteer for the the dangerous work or open the door for a woman in the shopping mall or block up their feelings and depend on the woman for their emotional life. Anything is possible and over time these culturally learned behaviours and dependencies can and will be reduced or eliminated.

I believe that a big step towards our liberation from the feminist jackboot will be 'the art of selection' is taught to boys by their fathers. I think there are two types of women; those who value the family, they see both the man and women's role as two halves of the roof above their child's head as an integral past of the family and then there are those women who see men as walking wallets, there to serve them and their (ie her) children. The key for any man (or boy) is to be able to spot the difference between the two and treat them accordingly.

Detach emotions and do not ever become dependent on the latter (indeed I'd say avoid!) and commit and live a fulfilling life as part of a secure and unconditionally loving family with the former.

However distinguishing between the two types of women is almost never taught to boys nor men these days. I hear some men saying that there are all these mixed signals from women but if you analyse it there are signals from feminists and signals from 'normal' women. Once you spot who's who the task in one's daily life becomes easier.

That of course is only on a personal level, ie one's personal relationships with women, the other side of the coin is the authorities and their infiltration be feminists.

They are much easier to spot but far more difficult to avoid and in the end have to be fought head on.

I hope that all made some sort of sense!


Free event for organisations wanting to know how to have an impact on the NHS.


"I really like being a woman. ... I like it more now because I think it's more of a privilege."

I hope this was from the woman who wrote the book Self Made Man.

That woman talked a load of shight, i think i prefered her as ned. There is no female privilege, the reason why that woman could not cope was because you was doing a full year as someone else. Disrupting your life to live as a man or any other person but yourself would drive anyone mad. Also she is not a man, so had to spend a year trying to cover up and lie.

But there are real people who change sex, women who become men agree that when they pass as men (after hormones, not with clothes) they are treated better, payed better etc. The other way around men who become women claim to experience sexism like women do.

Now for the article question. Society does struggle to see men as victims. I dont know if its because of biology or behaviour, it could be both. If a woman kills herself people always look at what made her do it and blame that. Men are seen as more responsible for there own actions, even if there own actions lead to there own demise.

Also nature wants to hang on to women for longer, its possible that biology is why women are less likley to end there own life. Having female hormones could make you fear death more.

If im honest i do think that maybe men do lack the urge to protect each other, i dont even know if men feel emotion like women do. The different hormones effect there mind in different ways.

Ive often wished i could take testosterone for just one day to see its effects on my mind as i wonder how much hormones are to blame for lots of things.


The was am experiment to see how the same baby was responded to when it cried. The result was that the baby was responded to differently by adults told it was a girl compared to those told it was a boy. Basically the same behaviour was responded to as a cry for help and cuddles from the "girl" and as expressions of anger or demand for food from the "boy". So it doesn't have to be hormones.

The comment on responsibity is spot on. In international research on court sentencing found that the generally more punitive sentencing of males reflected cultural assumptions that men were fully responsible for their action but women were not.


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